A couple of weeks ago I made a brief aside on home schooling which generated a lot of negative comments. I thought this was kind of neat, since I am a very tiny blogger and enjoy getting comments of any kind. I thought: These people sure are sensitive!Maybe if I write a whole post about home schooling I’ll get dozens of comments!
Here is what I said that generated so much hostility:
But we as a society don’t accept this proposition, otherwise parents could choose to keep their children from getting an education (oh, wait..home schooling). Children belong to parents, yes, but they also fall within the purview of the whole society. These are our future citizens, as we have an interest in how they turn out.
And here is a selection of what people said:
I’ve never seen this lefty blog before, but the swipe at home education was gratuitous.
You really don’t know much anything about homeschooling, do you?
Of course, if knew anything about children in general, he’d know that there is absolutely zero connection between going to a specified government building called the school and education.
and my favorite…
Which was, of course, the whole point of the Hitler Youth program.
You know you’re on to something when the right compares you to Hitler!
Now to be honest, I’m not an expert on home schooling programs. I was really just making a joke. I have some real reservations about them in theory, but am open to persuasion if the data supports their efficacy. So let’s take a look, shall we?
The best argument in favor of home schooling is that parents would do a better job than the public school system. I was pretty skeptical that this was true, given their parents’ lack of real training, but to be fair I looked up the data. A study from the department of education reveals that there is no statistical difference between the performance of public and home schoolers. So the #1 reason that home schooling parents give to remove their children from the system turns out to be bunk. These parents are just as bad at teaching their children as the deeply flawed public system they are trying to rescue them from. There goes the major prop in the home schoolers’ argument. Their position just unravels from here.
Now one could argue that since there is no difference in the quality of educatioin, why not allow home schooling? Well, the fact that the #2, #4, and #5 reasons parents cite for keeping their children home have to do with religion and morality. And this is where I object to home schooling: it serves as a means of isolating children from contrary cultural influences, thus truncating a child’s experiences and narrowing his or her vision of the world.
That is a bad thing beyond the mere lack of breadth. First, home schoolers are overwhelming white. Second, they are overwhelming conservative christian. And third, they are more affluent. On the surface the data suggests that there is no income difference between home schoolers and public schoolers, but this is misleading. While the family incomes are the same, most home schoolers are from single income families. This means that the one breadwinner must be earning a ton of money.
So the heart of my objection to home schooling really amounts to a means for passing along one’s personal moral and religious doctrines to one’s child. This is fine as far as it goes, but what is NOT okay is to try to prevent that child from ever being exposed to contrary (and equally valid) forms of life. That is a recipe for artificially constricting a child’s horizons. It ultimately treats a child as an extension of the parent, as a thing.
So while I concede that the educational performances are the same, and that there are enough mechanisms for socialization that that children will not be social misfits, I am deeply concerned that these kids are going to grow up in an affluent, lily white christian conservative world.
The purpose of education is supposed to be to educate. Not just to improve test scores, and certainly not to propagate conservative christianity or to create right wing shock troops. That is just no way to raise a child.
I am now ready to be flamed.
For more, check out my blog The Third Estate.
At least statistically (looking at Levitt’s book FREAKONOMICS) shouldn’t these affluent, predominantly white children of educated parents (with lots of books) be doing BETTER than the godless, pitifully underfunded government-mandated PUBLIC SCHOOLS?
You say “The best argument in favor of home schooling is that parents would do a better job than the public school system.”, and shoot down that argument by saying that “there is no statistical difference between the performance of public and home schoolers” (by the way, I didn’t see any performance stats in the linked article, so I can’t bring up any of the myriad issues with academic performance metrics). But that misses the point. The question isn’t whether or not home-schooled kids do better than non-homeschooled kids, it’s whether the kids who get homeschooled would have done better or worse had they not been homeschooled. Obviously, that would be a tough study to run – you’d need duplicate kids – but the only conclusion you can draw from simply comparing the two populations is that they’re not distinct according to whatever metrics were used. The homeschooled kids could be a group that would’ve been low-scoring had they been in regular school, but improved dramatically at home (after all, the #3 reason listed for homeschooling was “Poor learning environment at school”); they could just as well be a group that would’ve been high-scoring in regular school, but whose academic development is stunted by the artificially constricted horizons at home. Or perhaps more likely (and all the teachers out there will think ill thoughts of me for saying it), the homeschooled kids are pretty much the same as the ones who don’t get homeschooled, and this just goes to show that (as a group) kids will exhibit pretty much the same academic performance regardless of what broad category of learning environment they’re in. At any rate, we don’t know.
On a related note, the #1 reason given in the study – that the parents “can give the child a better education at home” begs the question of what a “better education” would be. It doesn’t necessarily mean higher test scores, and from the homeschooling families I’m familiar with, it usually doesn’t. “Better” could mean “more religion”; it could mean “more vocational training”; it could mean “without being in danger of getting assaulted”; it could mean “somewhere they don’t call evolution an unproven theory”; it could mean “somewhere they notice that my child already knows how to read before the end of the semester”. Pretty much any of the other reasons given in the study could be considered addressing some problem in order to give the child a “better” education.
If your concern is that kids will be prevented “from ever being exposed to contrary (and equally valid) forms of life”, that their horizons will be “artificially constrict[ed]“, that they will be treated “as an extension of the parent, as a thing”, and that they “are going to grow up in an affluent, lily white christian conservative world”, keep in mind that if you take out “christian conservative”, all of those things apply just as well to wealthy east coast WASPy kids who get sent to private school.
[disclosure: I'm a public school kid who went to an Ivy League college and met a lot of WASPy prep school kids; my 3 younger siblings were/are homeschooled and (if I do say so myself) are turning out pretty well...the youngest is 14 and just finished her third semester of calculus at the local community college. My girlfriend's mother and aunt are both career teachers and were both vehemently opposed to homeschooling until they met my siblings...at which point they conceded that maybe it might work in some cases for certain types of people.]
Homeschools rule!
My original comment was deleted by accident. Here’s the nickel summary.
The NCES study say nothing about performance on academic tests– only about demographics. Rudner finds homeschoolers outperform public-schoolers by about 25 percentage points. Other more recent studies confirm this, but it’s impossible to get a randomized sample of homeschoolers, so the data are not ironclad proof.
In light of your misreading of the NCES study, your argument falls back to absolutely nothing. You’re wrong on the academics and you’ve conceded the socialization myth is just that– a myth. So, in your world, homeschooling is fine as long as the parents aren’t white and Christian. I’d say that’s just a bit racist.
Blogging works much better when you know something about the subject.
So what about all of us lower middle class, liberal, non-fundamentalists that homeschool to set our children free and broaden their horizons? Do we get a pass, or are we supposed to institutionalize our children too so they’ll learn their place and conform? Do we get to decide how to raise and educate them, or do you think the government knows best?
I ask only out of curiosity; what anyone else approves or disapproves of doesn’t really matter. No children I bear will spend their precious childhoods doing time at any school unless they choose to be there. Fat chance of that, once they’ve tasted freedom.
Why not turn your question on its head though and ask why children should be forced to go to school against their will? I know some children like school but I would guess that they are in the minority. Maybe more would choose to go to school if the ones that hate school were not there? Yes, education is a human right but isn’t freedom of movement a human right too? Sorry for so many questions but I’m interested in your views on children’s rights in this issue.
I think homeschooling for under twelve years old kids should gradually replace conventional teaching. I think public schools do not and cannot meet the targets, look at the number of children who graduate from lower school and do not know how to read. Private schools are in general very expensive. arrangements can be made for extracurriculum activities to allow homeschooled children to meet and mix. The mother or the father should have the opportunity to choose to stay home and teach their children and be trained and paid for that. Raising children and housework are very important for the society and should be renumerated .
This means that the one breadwinner must be earning a ton of money.
You know as well as the rest of us that your argument could be significantly better researched, but this is a blog and blogs can say what they want without the need to be valid. I get that.
However, this comment is too funny. Consider that homeschoolers get a ‘double whammy’ when it comes to the cost of schooling for their families. We pay the taxes that afford the public school kids their education AND we pay the way for our own children as well. I do not know too many homeschooling families whose family earned more than $24,000.00 last year. SINGLE INCOME FAMILIES with MULTIPLE CHILDREN. NOT earning a ton of money, but effectively managing their monies and educating their children.
I’m a single income family, too! I’m a single parent who busts my ass and has formed a community of lower-middle class families to homeschool our children.
You are making a common liberal mistake in your article – arguing that homeschooling is the realm of conservative christians. There are many of us freaks and weirdos, anarchists and radicals out here who homeschool NOT to indoctrinate our kids, but to prevent them from being indoctrinated by public schools.
You admitted that you didn’t know much about homeschooling. My suggestion, if you are at all interested in learning where your assumptions are completely incorrect, is that you read, at the minimum, John Taylor Gatto (do a google search and read _Dumbing Us Down_) and John Holt (_Growing Without Schooling_, _Teach Your Own_, and many, many others.)
Certainly, there are problems with homeschooling. I agree with and admit to the fact that there is not much cultural or economic diversity within the homeschooling community – that is definitely one of the major flaws of the movement. However, you are grossly misinformed if you believe that most or even many homeschooling families do so to shelter or isolate their children. It’s simply not my experience as a member of this community.
So what do you make of me? I’m not homeschooling for religious or moral reasons. I’m not homeschooling because I didn’t think my children would get a suitable education in public school. I’m homeschooling because I believe that schools don’t handle children with different needs well. When I started homeschooling, it was with a child who couldn’t handle mornings. Pure and simple, her circadian rhythm was just not meshing with the school day. No amount of ‘bedtime’ routine was working. Now with my youngest, we homeschool to accomodate his autism spectrum disorder. I find it is much easier to help him learn to socialize in a setting that does not cause him to lapse into anxiety disorder. Our homeschool group has been wonderful helping with him. The other children have been informed about his differences and they help him figure out how to communicate and relate to others.
I have to say, I agree with the person who said you must not know much about homeschooling. We are not all religious fundamentalists – approximately 1/3 are Conservative Christian according the last study I read. We are not all cloistered – I know hundreds of homeschooling families, and of those I can think of only two or three that don’t regularly associate with a wide variety of other people. I see someone else has already address the ;better education’ issue, so I will just add – how many public schools are capable of preparing my oldest for her college of choice which is an agriculture school where she is studying Greenhouse/Nursery management and Landscape Architechture? As a homeschooler she could focus on the things she liked and there fore she entered her program well ahead of her classmates in horticultural knowledge, something no public school testing includes in scoring.
And that should have read:
“I’m not homeschooling because I didn’t think my children would NOT get a suitable education in public school.”
Got ahead of myself typing.
This means that the one breadwinner must be earning a ton of money.
~gah~
I wish. Then I would not have to wait tables PT to help pay the bills so we can pay for our palatial double-wide. A number of my friends who also homeschool, also work. Some are even from single parent families. Please do your homework.
And this is where I object to home schooling: it serves as a means of isolating children from contrary cultural influences, thus truncating a child’s experiences and narrowing his or her vision of the world.
So do private christian schools. Why pick on homeschooling families.
I hate to repeat what others have written, but not everone who homeschools is a religous-right nutjob. Among my homeschooling friends there is one, count ‘em, one parent who voted for the Evil Empire in the last election. If anything you could say my child is getting a narrow view of the world because he hardly knows any kids growing up in conservative christian families.
I’d also like to hear your response to Shelly’s question concerning children’s rights and the freedom not to be institutionalized all day if that is not the child’s choice. Well, just ditto on what Shelly and Latanya wrote—this is the reason we homeschool: Freedom.
LOOPY LEFTY
Here’s a follow-up to a gratuitous swipe at home education. As far as I can tell, Publius is not getting any smarter….
The cliff notes version of Gatto, The Underground History of Education, is available at http://www.odonnellweb.com/mtarchives/cat_the_underground_history_of_american_education.php
I haven’t got the last couple of chapters done yet, but there is more than enough there to chew on.
I had a lot to say, so I put it here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/photograefin/
Oh dear, I have completely failed and can’t be a homeschooling parent. Whatever shall I do and tell the children?
~~sigh~~ I’m not white, guess I can’t be homeschooling. I’m not Christian, just one of those nasty old pagans, guess I can’t be homeschooling. I’m not rich, in fact, I’m downright poor. Wow, guess I can’t be homeschooling. Drat, foiled again. We aren’t conservatives either. And, oh bother, we have two incomes. I guess we really can’t be homeschooling! We have failed all the tests!
So let’s address this issue by issue. Strap yourselves in for the long haul folks, I’ve gotten a little wordy here:
“Now to be honest, I’m not an expert on home schooling programs.”
*** Well, duh, we figured that out right away. So, let’s start small. Honest is good However, mistake No. 1 in this blog, homeschooling programs are something that are sold to people. Most people aren’t necessarily part of, nor do they buy into a particular program.
“I was really just making a joke.”
***I’d suggest you don’t give up your day job, dear. Jokes are supposed to be funny. A comedian you aren’t.
“I have some real reservations about them in theory, but am open to persuasion if the data supports their efficacy. So let’s take a look, shall we?”
***Well, then, continue reading.
“The best argument in favor of home schooling is that parents would do a better job than the public school system.”
***In case you haven’t noticed, the public school system is failing, miserably. Check the data, check the dropout rates, check the test scores, do your homework.
“I was pretty skeptical that this was true, given their parents’ lack of real training, but to be fair I looked up the data. A study from the department of education reveals that there is no statistical difference between the performance of public and home schoolers.”
***Again, your public school training is showing and as such is a good argument against public schooling and for homeschooling. You didn’t read the report. You glanced at it and took what you wanted and then stopped reading.
“So the #1 reason that home schooling parents give to remove their children from the system turns out to be bunk. These parents are just as bad at teaching their children as the deeply flawed public system they are trying to rescue them from. There goes the major prop in the home schoolers’ argument. Their position just unravels from here.”
***No, dear, it just shows that you didn’t do your homework. If you want to build an argument you need a good foundation. If your foundation is faulty, then your argument fails. Your foundation is not only faulty, it is Swiss cheese and thus your arguments are full of holes and fail miserably.
“Now one could argue that since there is no difference in the quality of educatioin, why not allow home schooling? Well, the fact that the #2, #4, and #5 reasons parents cite for keeping their children home have to do with religion and morality. And this is where I object to home schooling: it serves as a means of isolating children from contrary cultural influences, thus truncating a child’s experiences and narrowing his or her vision of the world.”
***Again, you haven’t done your homework. I’m sure your public school teachers are turning over in their collective graves. The facts, children who attend a school in their immediate neighborhood or who attend a church run school are far more likely to be insulated from the world at large. Last I looked, the world at large wasn’t segregated by age or neighborhood or, as in your argument, religion.
“That is a bad thing beyond the mere lack of breadth. First, home schoolers are overwhelming white.”
***Wow, not only are you wrong but guess you better do something about all those schools that are “overwhelming white.”
“Second, they are overwhelming conservative christian.”
***Well, wrong again and there go all those public schools in the Bible Belt.
“And third, they are more affluent.”
***O.K., three strikes and your out! Better nix the schools in alluent neighborhoods.
“On the surface the data suggests that there is no income difference between home schoolers and public schoolers, but this is misleading. While the family incomes are the same, most home schoolers are from single income families. This means that the one breadwinner must be earning a ton of money.”
***Geez Louise, it is just plain scary what public school is putting out nowadays! Vet your sources cause they have an ax to grind and its name isn’t truth!
“So the heart of my objection to home schooling really amounts to a means for passing along one’s personal moral and religious doctrines to one’s child. This is fine as far as it goes, but what is NOT okay is to try to prevent that child from ever being exposed to contrary (and equally valid) forms of life. That is a recipe for artificially constricting a child’s horizons. It ultimately treats a child as an extension of the parent, as a thing.”
***Ah, HELLO! What the heck do you think public schools do? You don’t think teachers have an agenda? You don’t think schools have an agenda? Have you ever read “Lies My Teacher Told Me”? Have you ever read the current required reading lists? Gone through a textbook?
“So while I concede that the educational performances are the same, and that there are enough mechanisms for socialization that that children will not be social misfits, I am deeply concerned that these kids are going to grow up in an affluent, lily white christian conservative world.”
***O.K., and you are going to stop kids from growing up in lily white christian conservative world how? Homeschooling isn’t producing these folks. These same folks have existed for hundreds of years. You do remember the Pilgrims, don’t you? Those types have been with us for a LONG time!
“The purpose of education is supposed to be to educate. Not just to improve test scores, and certainly not to propagate conservative christianity or to create right wing shock troops. That is just no way to raise a child.”
***Ah geez, again without the homework! The purpose of school is mandatory attendance. The purpose of the public school system is NOT to educate, it is, and I quote:
“Let our pupil be taught that he does not belong to himself, but that he is public property. He must be taught to amass wealth, but it must be only to increase his power of contributing to the wants and demands of the state. [This education] can be done effectually only by the interference and aid of the Legislature.” – Benjamin Rush, 1786 (Signer of the Declaration of Independence, believed in leeches as the ultimate medical treatment for many diseases, opposed classical education for anyone other than the elite.)
“Our schools are, in a sense, factories, in which the raw products (children) are to be shaped and fashioned into products to meet the various demands of life. The specifications for manufacturing come from the demands of twentieth-century civilization, and it is the business of the school to build its pupils according to the specifications laid down.” – Ellwood Cubberley, Dean of School of Education at Stanford, 1920
“Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent overeducation from happening. The average American (should be) content with their humble role in life, because they’re not tempted to think about any other role.” – U.S. Commissioner of Education, William T. Harris, 1889 -
“The secret of the superiority of the state over private education lies in the fact that in the former the teacher is responsible to society…the result desired by the state is a wholly different one than that desired by parents, guardians, and pupils.” – Lester Frank Ward, Professor of Sociology, Brown University
“[The role of the schoolmaster is to] collect little plastic lumps of human dough from private households and shape them on the social kneading board.” – Edward Ross, Professor of Economics, Stanford University, 1900
“The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else.” – H.L. Mencken
“The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society that is coming, where everyone would be interdependent.” –John Dewey, educational philosopher, proponent of modern public schools.
“Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our founding fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It’s up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well by creating the international child of the future.” Harvard psychiatrist Chester M. Pierce, speaking as an expert
in public education at the 1973 International Education Seminar
Chance that an American adult believes that ‘politics and government are too complicated to understand’: 1 in 3. Chance that an American who was home-schooled feels this way: 1 in 25
~~ Harper’s Magazine, May 2004 issue
“A general State education is a mere contrivance for molding people to be exactly like one another; and as the mold in which it casts them is that which pleases the dominant power in the government, whether this be a monarch, an aristocracy, or a majority of the existing generation; in
proportion as it is efficient and successful, it establishes a despotism over the mind, leading by a natural tendency to one over the body.” – — John Stuart Mill, 1859
“I am now ready to be flamed.”
***Nah, we just aim to educate you <> Now, go make like a good little homeschooler and do your homework before you place your fingers on the keys!
Lynda
So just because someone is white and Christian they shouldn’t homeschool? Gimme a break!
Both my husband and I happen to be white but we are from 2 different cultures with 2 different native languages. We have met pagans, Muslims, Wiccans and atheists in our homeschool group and I even for the first time, met Fundamentalist Christians. They were the ones I was predjudice against from what I’d heard on-line but they turned out to be nice people! By the way, though I attended public school and had an indoor pool and a stay-at-home mom I now live below poverty level in ana apartment. I homeschool not for the reasons you mention but because I like my daughter and want to be with her.
What you’ve presented here is an argument against indoctrinating children into a belief system you don’t agree with and isolating them from the rest of the world so they don’t know there’s anything else. Whatever the merits of that argument may be, what it is NOT is an argument against education outside of institutionalized schooling per se.
Beileve it or not, many homeschooling families are liberal, many are not wealthy (my family certainly is not – our yearly income is $21K,) many are non-religious, do not isolate their children from the rest of society, and prefer to keep their children away from schools because they believe that schools are essentially anti-life and anti-freedom, and because they understand that learning happens best when non-coerced and according to an individual’s own needs and time-table and interests.
http://home.earthlink.net/~eaglefalconlark/blueviolet/edquotes.html
You know you’re on to something when the right compares you to Hitler
****
You didn’t know the Prussian model used by Hitler is the same model used by our school system?
This should be a very big clue for you. I am sure the curriculum you were indoctrinated by just innocently left out this “tiny, unimportant point”. If they did include it, they also told you what to think of it.
If minority issues interest you, Thomas Sowell’s “Quest for Cosmic Justice” has some good information.
You know how you think this couldn’t possibly be an issue because this information is not coming from a teacher or credentialed authority figure? This is what is meant by “leaving citizens incapable of original thought.” This Prussian school method teaches, from early childhood, that what you think must come from a teacher or government authority figure, not a parent. As adults, most people never shake this training.
How do you think Hitler got all those people to go along with him without question? Through Government schooling.
Jeez, you people are sensitive.
Apparently, in Home School, the most popular major is Self-Righteousness.
Recently, I addressed similar thoughts to yours at
Susan
6/22/2005 at 4:25 pm
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Julie
6/22/2005 at 5:57 pm
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Beverly
6/22/2005 at 7:46 pm
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Kristie
6/23/2005 at 3:40 am
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Kristie
6/23/2005 at 3:49 am
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hornblower
6/23/2005 at 5:35 am
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6/23/2005 at 7:13 am
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6/23/2005 at 8:20 am
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Sheri
6/23/2005 at 10:58 am
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6/23/2005 at 11:37 am
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Susan
6/24/2005 at 5:13 am
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Lioness
6/26/2005 at 5:33 pm
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Rob
6/27/2005 at 9:20 am
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carr
6/28/2005 at 11:11 am
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habaib
6/29/2005 at 8:53 pm
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Lioness
7/3/2005 at 10:09 am
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matt
7/6/2005 at 9:23 am
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11/28/2005 at 12:07 pm
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“You know you’re on to something when the right compares you to Hitler!”
Huh?
What caused you to make the erroneous, knee-jerk assumption that I am a right-winger? Was it the fact that I don’t worship at the altar of public schooling?
And I hardly compared *you* to Hitler, fer cripe’s sake. I was referring to your suggestion that “society’s” interests should override the rights of individuals and their children. But in your misplaced glee over thinking a right-winger had compared you to Hitler, did you even *bother* with reading the rest of my comment?
If you support the institutionalization of “society’s” interest in ensuring that “society’s” agenda is transmitted to upcoming generations, then what will be the implications of such a system for your own children, should the type of person who finds it “deeply concerning” that *your* children’s education is lacking in certain areas ever comes to represent the voting majority?
“Society” isn’t just what you say it is or wish it to be; it is whatever it is and someday it might look like your worst nightmare. Will you be rah-rahing “society’s” interests then?
You know you’re on to something when the right compares you to Hitler
Oh, I forgot…..
I call Goodwin’s Law!!!!
Yea me.
“These people sure are sensitive!Maybe if I write a whole post about home schooling I’ll get dozens of comments!”
Imagine if you will that the way you have chosen to educate your children is not the “cultural norm.” Imagine again that just a few years ago that method of education was considered illegal and parents went to jail because of it. Imagine that today some school officials try to say your kids are “truant” because they don’t go to the socially recognized school during the socially recognized hours. Imagine that some school officials and state legislatures are trying to make it harder for you to educate your kids in the way you would prefer. Imagine also that there are newspaper and magazine articles along with TV segments and programs (and now blogs, too) that state your method of education to be anti-social and is either done mainly by religious fanatics or child abusers.
I guess if you can imagine all this then you might be able to imagine how the average homeschooler might be just a leeeetle bit sensitive to people like you adding more fuel to the fire.
Homeschoolers are an extremely diverse group because each one works in the parameters of a family. And…guess what…no two families are alike.
Our method of education is not perfect. We are not looking for perfection. We are just trying to find a way to make education for our children more than a “grade” or a “test.” And we would appreciate it if the rest of society would say, “Wow! You want to educate your child? How can we help?” instead of, “Wow! You want to educate your child? How can we make this harder for you?”
Imagine how THAT world would be.
I refuse to berate you for your opinions on homeschooling. I believe, in this country anyway, we have the right to free speech and the right to voice our own opinions.
I will tell you that I have been homeschooling my 11 year old son from the beginning. I will also tell you that my reasons for homeschooling have nothing to do with religion, and that I am about as “left” as they come.
We do not do school around a kitchen table. We do not use the testing method to see “how much he has learned.”
We live life and learn from it. We volunteer. We are activist. We spend our time together as a family. We do not read the bible at all, let alone all day. We have fun. We enjoy each other’s company.
My son is getting an education. And I am proud of the way we are achieving this.
I respect that everyone has the right to do what they feel is best for their own children. I respect that schooling is definately the way for most families right now. I respect your opinion to say that homeschooling is ridiculous. I accept that the homeschooling I have seen in many families is ridiculous!
All I ask is that my decision to teach my child at home be given the same respect.
I checked out the study you posted from the Department of education (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/2001033.pdf). I didn’t see any statistics mentioned anywere in this article on the actual performance of homeschooled children vs. their public schooled peers – did you post the wrong article, perhaps?
“Apparently, in Home School, the most popular major is Self-Righteousness.
Comment by Dr. Brazen Hussy ? 6/22/2005 2:54 pm | permalink
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Dr. Brazen Hussy ( what a fun pen name!)…as a homeschooling mother myself…I have to agree with you. I have been exposed to one too many families that feel superior to me and mine simply because we choose to homeschool using a different method than they do. This attitude does nothing to make others more accepting of homeschoolers.
And the whole “I homeschool and now my child has 18 degrees all before the age of 15 and the other plays cello like Yo-Yo Ma at the tender of 10″ speech is tired…even for us homeschoolers.
Homeschooled children are normal children. They enjoy normal childlike activities. The have friends. The hate this subject or that one. The like to laugh, and run, and play games. Homeschooling children see themselves as kids. Homeschooling parents are the annoying ones. And I say that as a homeschooling parent!
Can’t we all just get along? Why does everyone have to try to be better than everyone else? Why can’t we just say, “My way is valid for me and your way is valid for you.” Why all the holier than thou garbage from all sides, all the time?
:With that, the exhausted woman steps off her soap box and shuts up…much to the pleasure of those around her:
There is a Canadian study which concludes that academic & socialization outcomes are higher for homeschooled children than their schooled peers.
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/homeschool.pdf
There is NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING in NCES report you linked about the performance of Homeschoolers vs. those in traditional schools.
As this is the number 1 reason stated for homeschooling – and you completely ignored and failed to answer it, you are invalidating your own arguments and damaging your own credibility, while insulting many, many people. I guess you weren’t taught the finer points of debate and conversation…
As you were not able to provide any evidence to support your claim, I am going to help you and give you the evidence that does exist…. none: 1. . In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, “Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America.” The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
Here are some others:
http://www.uhea.org/stats.html
http://www.chec.org/Legislative/News/HomeschoolingStatistics/Index.html
(The average homeschool 8th grade student performs four grade levels above the national average (Rudner study), did do research perhaps??)
As a politically liberal, Unitarian, far from wealthy homeschooler, I disagree with much of what you say. My youngest child suffers from a form of mental illness and highschool was a nightmare for her. People homeschool for a variety of reasons, but what is probably the most compelling reason is we love our kids.
One of the reasons I homeschool my children, is to be sure that they develop the reading, research, and thinking skills necessary for determining when information is valid and accurate; and when it is merely propaganda or wishful thinking.
That way, when they read a report, for example, hoping to find information that supports their arguments; they will recognize when it is not there.
There do happen to be some studies done that compare the academic performance of homeschoolers to their public school peers. I have yet to see one where homeschoolers don’t outperform public schoolers.
Sheri
If you wanted a lot of comments you are getting them!!!
I think statistics can prove anything.
Each child’s experience with whatever schooling will be different. I just don’t think you can say homeschooling is best or public or private schooling is the best. It all depends on your child.
We sent all three of our children to public schools. We love them all of our children, I am guessing as much as anyone can. We actually sent them in part, so we could share our love of Jesus at school–so we sent our kids to public schools for religious reasons I suppose you can say. BTW they are all young adults now and we feel like they got a excellent education–the homeschoolers would not want their SAT scores averaged in against their kids believe me!
However, I totally 1000% support anyone who wants to homeschool their child. I believe God has a plan for each child. I think homeschooling can be great if that’s what God has for your child.
My biggest problem with homeschoolers is that they attack me because I sent my kids to public schools. I have already said they had a wonderful experience–and their children are still in school, so they don’t know about their kids yet. (And I know most of them will be just fine, that’s not my point.) I think it’s great if they homeschool–why can’t they be happy when someone believes their children got a great education in public school?
BTW I think you wrote this blog very well.
Blessings!
JB
Timely and apropos:
“Suppose you were to make the claim that the correct policy will always be whatever the majority decides. And suppose I were to respond by pointing out that the ‘Jim Crow’ racial segregation laws were the will of the majority at the time they were in effect.
“Would you think I was calling you a racist? Or would you understand that I assume the opposite and am therefore using a repugnant extreme to test the limits of your position?”
This is exactly what I was doing by pointing out that supporting the enforcing of “society’s interest” [whatever that might mean] over what children are taught and how they are taught it could lead to consequences that I doubt this blogger would have intended.
More here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/marcus3.html
Thank you for your blog! The false stereotype that homeschoolers are all white Christian conservative is so pervasive it’s always welcome to get a chance to counteract it. As Mitchell Stevens noted in his seminal study _The Kingdom of Children_, homeschoolers are the broadest-based social movement. As New York University sociologist Mitchell Stevens noted in his study _Kingdom of Children:
Culture and Controversy in the Homeschooling Movement_ http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/7135.html homeschooling is the most broad-based social movement in America, the only place where conservatives, liberals, Christians, Pagans, Muslims et al routinely work together to pursue a common goal. That’s certainly been the experience of this Pagan Green Party homeschooler.
BTW, have you ever heard of “frugality”? You don’t need a ton of money if you’re willing to not spend a ton of money.
As for why any liberal parent would homeschool, I take it you either didn’t have or don’t remember your own public school experience. My own and my husband’s experiences were sufficiently traumatic to make us swear off putting our children through anything like that before they were even concieved, and schools have only gotten worse. Next time you might want to do a tad more research before blogging. I realize it’s not as much fun that way, but you’ll get more respect in the long run.
Goodness! You wanted comments, you’re getting them. Here’s my two cents on why you are wrong.
“And this is where I object to home schooling: it serves as a means of isolating children from contrary cultural influences, thus truncating a child’s experiences and narrowing his or her vision of the world.”
Ahh, the liberal elevation of diversity to near-sacradness. Well, what can I say – your love of diversity apparently only holds true for “certain” diversities. You think “contrary cultural influences” are great, as long as they’re morally relative influences that don’t think themselves better than any other.
You claim to support these contrary cultural influences, yet you take issue with a culture containing views contrary to your own. Isn’t that kind of a “diversity racism”?
I can understand parents that take an approach of “expose the child to everything, let them chose what they feel is important.” But I desire to take a different approach. I have firm beliefs that some things are better, more correct, more right, more moral than other things. I do not wish to isolate my kid from other influences, but I wish to provide a foundation from which they can evaluate them. You call it truncating experiences if you like. I believe many experiences (like underage drinking, pre-teen sexualization, and even unmoderated exposure to “playground rule” of bullies and the bullied) should be truncated.
Well, I appreciate your solicitation of my viewpoint. Hopefully you find some of these responses helpful. Now if you’ll excuse me, I must get back to tinfoiling the windows in our house and making sure we don’t have a TV.
Rob
White conservative religious nut
Have you been in your average public school classroom lately??? Inappropriate sexual talk, rampant materialism, and all the trappings of the MTV generation have filtered down into younger and younger grades until second graders are more sophisticated than you would believe! Childhood is shorter and shorter than ever and peer pressure is paramount in public and some private schools for that matter. For a child to go through school with their sense of self relatively unscathed, would require a strong, leader personality, and most children don’t enter school like that.
Now I am no strictly left or right thinker; at least I would never consider myself either. More typical middle of the road, not too political. In fact, I would never have considered homeschooling five years ago(only wierd people who don’t shave their legs do that!). But then I worked in the public schools and then had my own kids. They have one chance at childhood–where they can be themselves and not get caught up in how everyone else dresses or the hot products, music, tv shows etc. In a sense, they can be sheltered-at least for a few years until they get a good sense of stability and can handle some peer pressure with maturity. I also like the positive aspects of homeschooling– meaning strong families that communicate in a world that is increasingly disconnected, strong sibling relationships, etc.
I do agree with you about having them exposed to different cultural viewpoints, etc. I agree that is important, especially in the later years of education where they can discuss and understand multiple views, and I will most likely put them back into a public or private school. In the early years, I want them grounded in the basics and to know some of their family’s heritage and values. (and I certaintly don’t intend to lock them in the house during this time!)
And as far as being ‘rich’ homeschoolers, we certaintly are not. I made a choice to stay home with my kids and that involved sacrifices. Would we be able to afford nicer things if I had an income as well? You bet, but it was a choice. The remodeling of the kitchen will have to wait!
Oh, and you would be surprised how many professional educators either homeschool their kids or send them to private schools. This isn’t just coincidence.
Hey people what is happening the discussion has diverted from homeschooling to indoctrination of children. Is this the intention of parents who prefer homeschooling, i hope not.
Publius, if all parents homeschool, because they want to protect their children “as a means of isolating children from contrary cultural influences” then how do you explain National Directory of Fully Inclusive Homeschool Support Groups http://www.uuhomeschool.org/groups.php3 which welcomes “everyone of all races, ethnicities, religions, family compositions, sexual orientations, learning styles, lifestyles, abilities and disabilities, and asking only that rules of civility, kindness and compassion be honored by all, for all.” Hmmm?
I was home schooled. (7th – 12th grades). I’m 36 now. When I was homeschooled I read Plato, Aquinas, Machiavelli, Bastiat and Homer. How many 15 year olds are assigned the task of reading and criticizing Richard Nixon’s “Real Peace”? Every morning began with reading the newspaper from front to back. I visted court houses and observed trials. I helped erect church buldings. At sixteen I could build a small building from the ground up. My mother taught me the guitar and the mandolin. I learned Greek. (My final exam was translating 1 Corinthians into english and Philemon into Greek.) Since then I’ve had fascinating careers in the military, advertising, and now property management. I have a college degree. Three children. Am active in my church.
Yep, it looks like homeschooling really messed up my life.
LOOK AT THIS LINK
More on Home schooling
I think the mere idea of turning one’s children over to the government – and strangers – for indoctrination (er… I mean ‘education’) during their most fragile, formative years, is absolutely insane.
How was your experience the last time you had to deal with a government-run office? Next time you’re in line at the DMV, imagine – the people in charge have power to arrange your days and activities and decide how you should think, for the next 12 years. The random 15 people in front of you and 15 people behind you in line will be your all-day companions for the next 9 months.
You have no choice.
Think of the stupidity with which the DMV is run. The arrogance – the lack of basic common sense. The stupid mistakes. The waiting – waiting – waiting.
Thomas Jefferson, an early advocate for government-funded education was adamantly against the government running it. He compared it to hiring a government agent to come run one’s farm.
Children should be treated with dignity. Allowed to learn in freedom. Permitted to pursue their OWN interests.
Compulsory government education will not do those things. My own children, homeschooled their entire lives, think the simple concept of having to ask permission to use the toilet – and perhaps be denied – to be abusive. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the stripping away of basic human rights and dignity that is done to most children on a daily basis.
In the words of Albert Einstein:
”
IT IS, IN FACT, NOTHING short of a miracle that the modern methods of education have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in need of freedom; without this it goes to wrack and ruin without fail. It is a very grave mistake to think that the enjoyment of seeing and searching can be promoted by means of coercion and a sense of duty.”